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Part 1. Startup Education for Underdogs, Drawing World's Attention\n\nLee Seung-hwan, CEO of ㅍㅍㅅㅅ (hereafter Lee): Hello, could you introduce yourselves first?\n\nJo Sang-rae, CEO of Underdogs (hereafter Jo Sang-rae): I'm Jo Sang-rae, serving as CEO of Underdogs, the No.1 startup education company and a game changer in the startup education scene.\n\nKim Jung-heon, CEO of NewBlack (hereafter Kim Jung-heon): I'm Kim Jung-heon, founder of Underdogs and former CEO until Jo Sang-rae's appointment. Currently, I'm serving as CEO of NewBlack, the parent company and impact company builder.\n\nNewBlack CEO Kim Jung-heon (left), Underdogs CEO Jo Sang-rae (right)\n\nLee: Why was there a change in CEO? Were you ousted like Steve Jobs, Mr. Kim?\n\nKim Jung-heon: Not quite... (laughs) I'm focusing on the parent company 'NewBlack,' while CEO Jo Sang-rae is concentrating on 'Underdogs.' It's simply a matter of organizational restructuring.\n\nLee: What kind of company is 'Underdogs'?\n\nKim Jung-heon: It's the largest 'startup education' company in Korea. Initially, we started with the idea of nurturing companies with 'social purpose.'\n\nLee: 'Social purpose'? It doesn't sound like a profit-making company...\n\nKim Jung-heon: That's not necessarily true. Underdogs is now seven years old, and we've been profitable since our first year. Our first-year revenue was about 100 million won, but in the first half of this year, we've already achieved 7 billion won, and we're likely to comfortably exceed 10 billion won.\n\nWith the lifting of social distancing policies in 2022, we expect revenue of 10 billion won.\n\nLee: Wow... 10 billion won from just startup education... It's bigger than expected.\n\nKim Jung-heon: Yes. Of course, there are many companies with larger revenues than us. However, I want to emphasize that Underdogs' revenue consistently generates black ink. Also, we haven't received any investments, so we're not pushing our business recklessly.\n\nBefore COVID, we also developed global businesses such as the 'Asia Tomorrow Network.'\n\nPart 2. We Simply Continued Our Work, and the Times Aligned with Us\n\nLee: What does 'NewBlack,' the parent company of Underdogs, do?\n\nKim Jung-heon: Underdogs nurtures prospective entrepreneurs, right? NewBlack is a 'company builder' that builds companies together with entrepreneurs at the very early stage. It's somewhat like a talent agency for entrepreneurs. We manage and develop entrepreneurs. Underdogs plays a major role here. Underdogs nurtures about 2,000 entrepreneurs annually, and NewBlack screens and invests in them. It's an ecosystem.\n\nNewBlack has already established 7 impact startups and accelerated 10 impact startups.\n\nLee: With company building, you have to think together about the early stages of startup development, from ideas to team composition to investment. This must create complex issues like equity relations. Haven't you faced difficulties?\n\nKim Jung-heon: We're an 'ultra-early stage company builder.' In situations where resources and capital are lacking, we had to rely on 'trust capital' with entrepreneurs. That's why we were able to make decisions more flexibly. Everyone owns over 50% equity and maintains ownership, so they can develop independently. B.A.T, a comprehensive marketing company, is a prime example. They remain good partners and colleagues. We plan to continue this trust-based company building in the future.\n\nEven now, NewBlack secures various impact startups in its portfolio.\n\nLee: It seems you're emphasizing social impact. Does NewBlack nurture social ventures?\n\nKim Jung-heon: That's how we started, but now we don't focus solely on 'social.' ESG is a hot topic these days, right? Even if not a social enterprise, the mindset of pursuing social impact—positive social change—has become essential. Since 'Underdogs' started with nurturing social enterprises, that process is still well embedded in our educational programs.\n\nGoogle selected BigWalk as 'App of the Year for Social Contribution' in 2021.\n\nLee: True, the term 'social enterprise' is gradually disappearing, but this is an era where all general profit-making companies pursue ESG.\n\nKim Jung-heon: For us, the market has expanded. Previously, there was often a dichotomy distinguishing social enterprises from others. We, on the other hand, flexibly accepted concepts like social enterprises and impact. So we've aligned with the contemporary social atmosphere where general companies are participating in creating impact. We were simply sitting still, and the times caught up with us.\n\nPart 3. Casual Start in a Shared Office Space\n\nLee: How did you two meet?\n\nJo Sang-rae: I was preparing a social venture called 'WaterFarm' with a friend. My friend who was working with me attended a consulting session by CEO Kim Jung-heon and was impressed. He said that CEO Kim was creating an accelerator called 'Underdogs' and suggested we join. So we entered 'Underdogs,' rented a corner of the office, and started a sort of cohabitation.\n\nLee: What kind of company was 'WaterFarm'?\n\nJo Sang-rae: It was a company that provided water-saving solutions and gave rewards equal to the water saved when customers followed these solutions. We created services and products for this.\n\nWaterFarm was a water-sharing service company that proposed optimal water usage solutions.\n\nLee: With situations like the recent drought issues, it might have done well, but I imagine it wasn't popular back then...\n\nJo Sang-rae: That's right. While people recognized the need for climate change awareness and water conservation, they found it difficult to actually practice it in their daily lives. Local governments also focused more on stable water supply rather than conservation itself. It was a struggle. We tried incorporating IoT, even made shower heads... At one point, we created a service comparing household water usage, and it was quite effective. Since numbers directly compared your usage to your neighbor's, the necessity of water conservation became intuitive.\n\nLee: When did you join Underdogs?\n\nJo Sang-rae: Right after completing that service.\n\nLee: Why did you join Underdogs? Didn't you have lingering attachment to WaterFarm?\n\nJo Sang-rae: I didn't. It took 2-3 years at WaterFarm to create that service. Then I thought, 'Starting a business...